I'm a Christian... which is a good thing if I am going to pastor a Christian church. But the Christian I am resists much of what is promoted as "Christian" in American society:
- I find no conflict between the brilliant theory of evolution and the beautiful truths of Genesis.
- Artist-renderings of Jesus wrapped in an American flag (or any other) make me want to hurl.
- I am equally at home with Judeo-Christian, Buddhist, Confucian, Quranic and Sufi texts, though I find the Rig-veda a tough slog and the Book of Mormon just plain goofy (sorry, Mormon brothers and sisters -- it's me, not you... just being honest here in the shadow of Hill Cumorah).
- I think insisting on particular genitalia for God is goofy, too, but I take no offense at pronouns.
- I am too busy working in the trenches to look for Jesus coming on the clouds.
I guess I take my God at my God's word: With the most common Biblical directive from God, messiah and angels being "fear not," I find no place for fear in faith. This is borne out for me in my experiences in the presence of God. In those blessed moments when I feel closer than close to God, the very first thing I feel is a flushing away of all fear.
The physiological response to fear includes the constricting of blood flow to the brain, the narrowing of perception and the predominance of our most primitive impulses...definitely not the way I want to encounter the Holy One, you know?
Jesus told the patriarchal society of his day to call God Daddy. Disarm the dread... whatever it takes, just get yourself as closely aligned and harmonized as possible to all that is true, pure, good and loving.
So that's me. What about you? What do the words Christian and/or faith mean to you?
About me. I am a Christian, an old-fashioned Christian. I belong to God. I am a “sister”, a “disciple”, and a “believer”.
ReplyDeleteSome think that I am a rigid, bible-thumping conservative. They are right. These are my beliefs:
The Bible is God-breathed (John 1:1), and that Christ is the Word (John 1:14). I have my favorite translation, and I have many translations that I reference to help me understand something. . It is God’s Word for which became flesh.
God created man in His own image. I believe in that whole “In the beginning……..” theory.
I worship My God, my Adonai, my El Shaddai, my Yahweh, my Jehovah-jireh, and my Father. I cannot wrap my mind around my Fathers’ gender being female, because my own dad is not a woman. The only pronouns I can respond to in my old conservative Christian mind are “He”, “Him”, or “His”.
I too do not sit and watch and wait for the Rapture. Do I believe that Jesus will come again and take all those who are saved home? Of course I do, and am confident that I will be going home. But I have way too much on my plate to waste time worrying about such things!
When I first gave my life to Him and was digging into His Word, I was totally confused every time I encountered the word “fear”. I could not understand why you should be fearful of a God who is supposed to be all loving and merciful. Now that I have been on my faith journey for a while, I am clearer in my understanding of fear. For a believer, fear means reverence, awe and respect. It is a healthy kind of fear. To a non-believer, fear is being filled with terror and dread, which is harmful. I am not afraid of God or of God’s capabilities. However, I am in awe of Him and His capabilities. Does any of that make sense?
As far as my faith, I believe God. Yes, I also believe in God, but believing God is faith. I have faith that He does know every hair on my head. I have faith that He loves me for who I am. I have faith that He means business with those ten commandments : ) (the fear thing fits here also). I have faith that we were created in His image for His own pleasure. I have faith.
That is only part of my Christian faith. I find the longer I am on this awesome journey, and the closer my relationship with Christ grows, my faith becomes stronger and I become a stronger Christian.
Well said, Becky... in particular, that whole fear-versus-awe thing. Fear can wrap itself around a healthy case of awe. "Fear the Lord" in that way is an excellent thing, eh? The Hebrew term is fairly versatile like that.
ReplyDeleteLanguage changes, doesn't it? Older translations of the Bible sometimes referred to God as "terrible." I'd just as soon not sing or preach that in the modern world!
God as awesome is Biblical, natural, and appropriate, too. It's a shame that our kids call videogames and stuffed-crust pizza awesome nowadays. Kinda takes the power out of the term.
Our words for praising, describing and relating to God necessarily change as our languages live on and evolve.
Oh, and I wouldn't call you rigid, either!
Christian
ReplyDeleteA Christian is a person who lives their absolute best life and isn’t afraid to call upon a higher being for help in living that life. He doesn’t have to attend church weekly, just take the occasional moments of gratitude and reflection. How many of us know someone who beats their spouse, but attends church every week? I know I do. And I tell you, I better in line in front of him at the pearly gates!
All religions believe in a higher being, and I am OK that the Muslims superior being is tons different than mine. Muslims are Christians too, providing each is living their best life. Just because a few decided to not live their best life and kill several thousand Americans in 2001, doesn’t mean they are all bad.
Faith
Faith is what you believe---just you. Parents, teachers and clergy can shape those beliefs, but not make you believe them. I tend to reflect on my faith more when I am outside digging up the yard by hand than I do in church services. Does that make me bad, or not a Christian? I don’t think so. There’s more time to quietly reflect and I feel I am at one with God’s (sometimes green) earth. I’ve never taken the sound of a bird or a neighbor child for granted and I always ask, “How did He MAKE YOU?” Luckily I haven’t gotten any bird to answer me…but I am working on it.
I’m not going to go through life fearing words written in the Bible. Everything happens for a reason—not just because an apostle wrote it millennia ago.
I guess I am an old fashioned Christian also. My beliefs are very personal but I can tell you that I DO believe in God and what the bible tells us. I believe in the "beginning" theory. When I worship, I worship my God. It doesn't matter to me who or what everyone else calls their "God." I refer to my God as my Father. My awesome God,King, the heavenly Host and my fav', LORD.
ReplyDeleteMy Faith and God has worked wonders for me in the past few years and when I was awakened to His love, my faith grew and grew. I have a lot to learn and probably will never know all the Bible but He has provided for me and mine in ways that most would scoff at if they carried any doubt.
I do not fear God and that has always troubled me. Was I supposed to be "God fearing woman??" My God is an awsome God and so wonderous, why or how could I ever fear him? If I feared Him, then how could I possibly give my life and all of my love to Him? My personal journey has given me faith, Hope and Strength. I have very personal experiences with Him that would make a believer out of anyone but I don't think just anyone can have them. (do I make sense?)
As far as the person that beats his (or her) spouse and attends church every week......well, we might call him churchy. Anyone that beats someone,especially one he says he loves, cannot have a personal relationship with God. He goes to church just to show face and breathe our air with hopes that he can be a better person. He has broken all of the laws of the book. Can he be saved?? perhaps! But that still doesn't mean he has a personal relationship with God. Oh man, am I making any sense??
I just know that I, ME, Love my God. The more I love the more He loves me and He shows me. That strengthens my faith and myself Without Him I'd be lost!
Wasn't it Garrison Keillor who said "sitting in church makes you a Christian like sleeping in your garage makes you a car?" People have struggled to define what a follower of Christ is by what the follower of Christ will do since at least the Book of James. Christ spent the great majority of his time telling us what he wanted us to do with, for and to each other, right? God's big ten deal exclusively with how we relate to God, how we relate to our parents, then how we relate to each other...in that order.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, wasn't Christ huge on first acknowledging, then changing and repenting from our own sins, then forgiving others their past sins and going forth to sin no more? I really like the openness of Josie when it comes to this point. Notice, she didn't say the wife-beater can't get into heaven. She did infer that he'll have some answering to do first.
One reason I am drawn to church is to hear the stories of folks like Becky and 'leen, see how God is working in their lives, and maybe gain some recognition of where God is touching mine. I, too, do my best relating to God when I am outside: walking my dog at sunrise, tending to my trees or riding my bike through the hills of western New York. But my faith community keeps me accountable, inspired, and discovering new things about myself, my God and my world.
It is also interesting to look at how we consider stances and language of the last 150 years "old-fashioned" in a faith that is thousands of years old and that started with a nomadic street preacher who liked to dine with prostitutes, con men and beggars. Christ is anything but status quo, isn't he?
Okay, this is going to probably tick people off. But I think that your people who are sitting in the garage thinking they are a car is not any different than some of your people sitting in the pews. Christ gives us specific instructions on how we must live our lives for His glory. And in obeying His instructions may at times mean that you have to sacrifice your time or wallet. Sacrificing to see that His work is completed is a wonderful act of worship. People now days tend to have their priorities messed up. Sadly they let their work take precedence over His work. It should be the other way around. Can you just imagine what this world would be like if every person sacrificed one hour a week to do Christ’s work? What a wonderful world this would be.
ReplyDeleteCorey, you're right about the language being ever changing. There was a day if my kids called me "phat", I would have nailed them. Now I find out that is a good word. But when it comes to my beliefs, I have to be careful that changing the language doesn't lead me away from what the Word says. Christ himself took all of those Jewish priests and their laws and shook them all up. He took the big ten, and without changing the law themselves, taught all of us what God meant them to say.
Salvation is the greatest gift one could ever receive. I believe that EVERYONE, no matter what sins have been committed in the past, is given this gift for the asking. Forgiveness is for everyone, even this sinner. Sin is sin - there is no sliding scale on sin. Though I have never committed murder or beaten my husband, my sin grieves God as much as this other persons. So yes, the guy who continually beats his wife and comes to church every Sunday is exactly where he needs to be. I see that hour of the week as the time where God can use his church family to lead him to asking for forgiveness.
I am proud to be called a Christian and I believe the Bible is the handbook for my life. I can do nothing without it.
ReplyDelete"Christian" has at its very root the word Christ. If He is not your primary focus, you're not a Christian. Check any dictionary....
"Fear" is some word, isn't it? Fear when I'm a believer is awesome respect. Fear when not a believer is knee-knockin' terror. Ask the foes of Gideon what the word "terrible" means....
There are indeed many gods being worshiped and followed in the world. But the first two of the "big 10" cover that, don't they? Then read the New Testament and see how often Jesus and Paul (among others) warn about that very thing.
Choices. Our heavenly Father and His Son are all about choices. If a person chooses to beat and abuse their family, then sit in church to make it look good, the horrible choice has been made. The judgement will be meted out by the One who sees everything, not by others walking this earth. Gotta tell you-that goes back to the "terrible" I mentioned earlier.
We are all sinners and we have all fallen short of the Glory of God (see Bible). It all comes down to the choices we make. I chose to acknowledge the fact I'm a sinner and I asked Jesus to remove that sin and enter my heart and my life. Do I still sin? You betcha. But, now I know that I have to go to Christ and tell Him about it and ask for another chance. I get it, too--every single time. HE paid the ultimate price for my atonement on that cross on that lonely hill called Golgotha. Now, the sins I acknowledge and confess are thrown into the deepest sea.
Being in the "great outdoors" is an awe-inspiring reminder of just how powerful my God really is. He breathed it all into existence and it operates on a scale equal to (and surpassing) any super-computer man has ever tried to build. Think DNA..... Talking to Him there is the quietness He asks us to practice. "Be still and know that I am God".... But remember, we worship the Creator, not His creation....
We are also told not to "ignore the fellowshipping with other believers". That is where we find strength for our trials. There are times when my Lord knows I just need human arms to hug me and HE will put that person in my path when I am in His House. HE knows my weaknesses and can bring a help-mate into my life when I am with others who belong to Him. There is nothing like the sweet Spirit that hears many voices lifted up in worship. A joyful noise.....
My earthly father was not a shining example of anything, but I have a heavenly Father who is always there for me and Who knows exactly what's best for me. When His choices are tough, I really can believe that "this hurts Me more than it hurts you" because the Bible tells me that. He weeps when I weep and He rejoices when I rejoice. Much better than what I experienced growing up...I hope that the man who did those things to me met with the God who now cares for me before he drew his last breath. Otherwise the "terrible wrath" is now the consequence he is paying for his choices.
Choices. Faith. Fellowship. Salvation. Freedom. Wrath. Joy. GOD. Jesus. Bible. Not one of these words terrifies me. I'm a CHRISTian!
Sorry, but I'm back...My brain is engaged, you'll have to deal with it, or not.
ReplyDeleteThe abuser can, and will, find a new way of life when he (or she) allows what they hear at church to penetrate the hardness of their head and heart. There will be so many of "those people" in heaven, we'll be astounded. Why? Because my God is a God of the second chance (and third and fourth...). Nothing can compare to the light that shines forth from an abuser who has given their life to Jesus--He truly does shine forth from them. I have seen it. I have heard it. I have lived it. What goes on behind closed doors is astounding, but when that Holy Light enters in, the darkness flees!
He will come again for all who believe in Him. But, don't sit around waiting for that. Be like Becky and Corey--work those trenches and spread His Word abroad because that is what we are told to do by Jesus, Himself!
OK Mary, you are more radical than I am in your beliefs, but I think we are SORT OF on the same page. I can’t quote the Bible and am not sure I believe everything I have read from it, but believe the general ideas and messages that come from it. I believe I am a good person and that God approves of me and what I do. I try not to sin, but know I, too, fail at times.
ReplyDeleteAnd as you can guess from my earlier post—I believe that nature is God’s ultimate work. How can one NOT be astounded by what’s out there? I am out there every free moment—hot or freezing (like now!) temps—it doesn’t matter. I feel more at one with Him there than I do in any church.
I heard a group singing “Amazing Grace” at NIU after the shooting there on Thursday and started to ball. Why is it that song has that much power? Corey—as a minister—any ideas? Other bloggers? Only hearing it on bagpipes is more powerful.
Amazing Grace is one of a handful of hymns that are overwhelming in their power. One of the deepest blessings of my call is to stand up front and watch the Spirit move through a congregation with that song in particular.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people have heard the stories regarding John Newton, the composer of Amazing Grace. He had been employed on a slave ship, when a storm at sea led to his conversion. He would later become a clergyman and fervent abolitionist. (This gets back to what Mary was saying about how bright the light shines forth from the ones who repent from the most despicable of sins.) Newton had sunk about as low as a human being can sink, and his repentance was genuine, public and complete. He was then able to distill all those doubts,self-recriminations and ultimate redemption into a few simple stanzas that cut right to the heart of the matter. That hymn washes away pain as we sing of God's acceptance, rescue and enduring promise. It is a testament to faith in a loving God. God's grace truly is amazing. We're reminded of just how much we are loved -- treasured -- by our God every time we hear those opening strains.
Ah, Josie. Amazing Grace, How Great Thou Art (talk about an out-of-doors song!), In The Garden, The Old Rugged Cross, and It Is Well are ones that I find it very difficult to get all the way through without my throat closing with emotion and tears in my eyes, or running down my cheeks! They all draw our hearts and souls to the wonder that is God. And to think that (as Becky said) He knows the numbers of hair on MY head!
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely, Corey, they remind us that God can wash us clean. So many of those hymn-writers took words right out of Scripture and put them to music, often in response to having seen God move in their lives. Just like the original worship songs, better known as the Book of Psalms!
If my brain hadn't been fried by chemo and radiation I might have a memory. I can't remember my passwords. UGH!!~
ReplyDeleteI hope no one minds that I change the subject for one post. But I heard something on the radio today that absolutely shocked me. I ran to the computer to confirm what I heard, and I did.
ReplyDeleteFirst, some of you know that I am a statistics buff. There are times when the stats come in just as I thought they would. But there are those stats that shock me. Those shocking stats are the ones that make me start researching to see why they came back so off my mark. More often than not, it is because I needed to do more homework on the subject. But stats are always an education for me.
The stat I heard yesterday was conducted by The Barna Group. It was a survey about Christians and church. Please read an excerpt of the article:
For decades, American Christians, who comprise more than four of our every five adults, assumed they had one legitimate way to practice their faith: through involvement in a conventional church. But new research shows that this mind set is no longer prevalent in the U.S. The latest Barna study shows that a majority of adults now believe that there are various biblically legitimate alternatives to participation in a conventional church.
Each of six alternatives was deemed by a most adults to be "a complete and biblically valid way for someone who does NOT participate in the services or activities of a conventional church to experience and express their faith in God." Those alternatives include engaging in faith activities at home, with one’s family (considered acceptable by 89% of adults); being active in a house church (75%); watching a religious television program (69%); listening to a religious radio broadcast (68%); attending a special ministry event, such as a concert or community service activity (68%); and participating in a marketplace ministry (54%).
Smaller proportions of the public consider other alternatives to be complete and biblically valid ways of experiencing and expressing their faith in God. Those include interacting with a faith-oriented website (45%) and participating in live events via the Internet (42%). Full article can be read at http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=292
Come on people!!! 69% of Christians believe that watching a religious television broadcast is a suitable replacement for a church home!!! Another 68% believe that listening to Christian radio, or going to a Christian concert is a biblically legitimate alternative to participation in a conventional church!!! What is up with that?
What happened? When did it happen? How do we stop this from happening? All of those so called acceptable alternatives in my opinion are wonderful tools that you can use during the week to help you stay focused on the Lord. But nothing can take the place of a home church, with your church family, praising and worshiping together. Read Hebrews 10:24-25 where Paul (the probable author) writes that it is in the church where we are able to lift and encourage other believers. If you are sitting in front of a computer monitor, then how are you able to grab the hand of the neighbor that is weeping? Or how do you reach out and hug that person that got the great news from their test results? It just boggles my mind.
Not only does this survey upsets me, but it also makes me think of all of the other questions it evokes. 1) How do church leaders show non-churched Christians that the church can help them on their faith journey? 2) If the non-churched Christians truly believe that they can take this journey alone, what can we do to reach them? 3) In this age of electronics, will we ever be able to turn those numbers upside down? Or do we have to bow to their ways and do an online streaming on Sunday mornings and go the impersonal route?
I would love to read your opinions about this survey. I hope that I am not the only one who is sadden by it.
Becky, I had heard those figures before and it does upset me. I'm firmly committed to the concept of needing a physical church home and needing to attend it! I agree those other alternatives are great Monday-to-Saturday additions.
ReplyDeleteWith the increasing popularity and accessiblity of the Internet and other communication mediums, we are becoming less "social" beings. How sad that it is spilling over into our faith journeys. You know how hard it is to get people to do things within the church because they don't want to be bothered-they have no time.
Can we stop it? I don't think so. We are becoming very caught up in our innate selfishness. Can we do our best to combat it on a local level? Yep, by continuing to reach out in a personal face-to-face manner with people.
I know my beliefs differ from most in that I believe these heart-breaking trends we see are part of the great apostasy the New Testament warns us about. In Matthew, chapters 24-25, Jesus warns us about false teachers and prophets. Paul in numerous of his epistles, tells us to be vigilant and to test what we hear/see against the written Word.
This drift to impersonal, cyber-worship is removing the accountability that is so necessary to a Christian's faith. With no personal interaction, there is less we have to answer for to others; there is no challenge to our "grand ideas"; no correction when we err....
We become "experts in our own minds". Many great civilizations have done that to themselves...
I'm going to keep attending church and keep praying for other believers to remain true. I'm also going to continue working and "looking up".
Sorry, guys. I don't see the gloom and doom that you do here. I'm familiar with George Barna's work, and have admired him for some time. I see hope in the statistics, not a cause for alarm.
ReplyDeleteChrist didn't die to start a church. He lived, died and rose again to bring all of us to God, and the Kingdom to all of us. The church is a necessary tool, not the goal itself. Life in harmony with God is the goal.
I have to agree with Barna that much of what we consider so holy on Sunday mornings is really just borrowed stuff and trappings. A sermon, collection and hymn works for most people, but there are others (I mean, just read through Josie's postings again), who have been stung, cast aside or otherwise left out by our Sunday-Goin'-ta-Meetin' attitudes, jargon and traditions. God and Christ think bigger, and the Holy Spirit works a much larger canvas than our dinky little sanctuaries and our puny little prayer books. I mean, check out Isaiah 6 again, where God is too big to fit even the bottom of the Holy robe in the temple: and how does God characterize the church ladies and men?
"Keep listening but do not comprehend; keep looking, but do not understand. Make the mind of this people dull, and stop their ears, and shut their eyes, so that they may not look with their eyes and listen with their ears, and comprehend with their minds, and turn and be healed." (Isaiah 6:9-10... now the Biblical literalist might look at this as God's actual command. I think that view just doubles the irony of God's words here. God is actually saying: "People, you sit there like unblinking machines. Wake up and do something, for My sake!")
Check out Jesus saying "tear down this whole religious complex and I will rebuild it in three days."
Check out Christ meeting up with "the sick" instead of "those who 'don't need saving'," (Jesus says, staring at the oh-so-religious scribes and pharisees with an ironic twinkle in his eye).
The Barna research shows an appetite for the holy, a need to connect with other believers, a desire to be as Christ in the world, and a willingness to use all our modern tools to do so. This is very good news!
I know, I know, there are always those who say "I won't set foot in church, that place is full of hypocrites," but they'll still step into grocery stores, theaters and bars to get what they need, even though those places are lousy with hypocrites, too. Some people avoid church to avoid God. But others just don't see what we see in church or feel what we feel. Some suffered mightily at the hands of "the religious." Others are just wired differently. It is good for these people to find new outlets and avenues. Isn't that what the woman at the well did? Isn't that what the lepers, prostitutes and other "unclean" did? Isn't the whole Jesus movement based on the same sort of outsiders we are talking about here?
Becky, I read the statistics also and thought they were great. To have some people sitting quietly reading the Bible, or using TV or radio, or going to one of those spiritual concerts at a big stadium to feel God and be uplifted is great. God is everywhere. And to know that shut-ins are still trying to reach out. Sometimes I need to think about a sermon, that's why I LOVE hearing Corey's sermons through iTunes. I can rewind a sentence if I zone out for a minute. I can't do that on a Sunday morning. Sometimes I get more from reading than listening (I did TRY to read that paper you told us about in blog #2 Corey). Do I wish I could make it to church every Sunday? Sure. But sometimes that just isn't possible.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Corey that the spiritual appetite is out there and that technology in this case is a wonderful way for people to reach out to God.
Are you still there? I'm several days late to this thread and maybe several metaphorical dollars short, but here goes.
ReplyDeleteFirst to the first topic of this thread- what is a Christian?
For most of my life, I called myself a Christian but have stopped saying it out loud to most people because of all the times people misunderstood what I meant. It seems almost every single individual I would speak Faith with had a unique definition of what a Christian is, ranging from a strict, unwavering list of what must be done to accomplish "Christianhood" to the loosest of definitions, i.e.- "Are you generally considered a 'nice guy'? Then you're a Christian."
So I've come to the conclusion that being a Christian means whatever it means to you. It is a good sign if you are thinking about the meaning of being a Christian.
My personal definition is the most literal: Christian- a follower of Christ
No checklists. No hurdles or condemnations. Do my actions, and words are actions, follow the example of Jesus Christ?
Now, some of you, and some of my fellow parishioners at the Honeoye UCC, may be alarmed that I no longer attend services. That doesn't mean I won't again. I don't now. My journey has taken a secular bent. I'm learning alot about myself and my brothers and sisters of my race (human). I keep God constantly in my heart and mind, or strive to anyway.
Personally, and this is my choice, I tend not to lean on the Bible too much. I've read it carefully, cover-to-cover, three times, so the spirit of it does hold sway over my life and all the decisions I make within it.
Now, to the second part of the thread- the poll you were discussing. I have to say I agree with Corey that it is a good sign that Christianity is finding its way into the world, even the ethereal internet, and spreading like water finding paths down a mountainside to quench the spiritual thirsts of those who will drink. It is, pardon the expression, evolutionary. Personally, I took heart as this would seem to support the path that I am currently on.
Thirdly, "Amazing Grace" touches me as well, though I find "The Garden" a bit treacly for my tastes. But there are secular songs that bring me to tears as well, that touch my soul deeply. I was on the verge of tears this morning on 390N as I was listening to John Mayer's "Stop This Train" from his Continuum album- a song about wishing to freeze time to protect and keep your loved ones in a current state of health and existence, about wishing to slow or stop the march of time in our lives. Specifically, the phrases about not wanting to "see my parents go" (I'm choking up as I type this) and the conversation he has with his Dad in which his Dad straightens John out saying "John, don't stop this train. Don't for a minute change the place you're in."
This is where I am- finding God in the secular, seeing where God shines through what many of the devout consider "other than Christian". So far, it is being quite rewarding.
I, too, love the great outdoors and once told a pastor I love and respect about taking my dogs out and praying under a starry night sky. He admonished me not to limit my devotion to the dogs' toilet breaks. I'm still laughing at that one.
So, whether you thump the Good Book, marvel at the first Spring Flower, find God in an infant's eyes or your pets' unwavering love and loyalty, or get your re-charge Sunday morning in a beautiful brick hilltop church- carry God with you always and live Christ's example. My own advice, file it where you wish, is to not be too concerned with entrance through those pearly gates. That is, don't live your life focussing extravagently on your death. How you've evolved your soul will punch that ticket when the time comes.
My opinions, all. God bless you and yours. Kendall